Minimus 7W Restomod Speaker's Sound and RCA Interconnects and A Look Into Where All The Magic Happens.

August 3, 2018
#266

Gentle reader,

Many times I have mentioned "the office" and yet you probably have no idea to what I do refer. And yes, my referring to blogging my as "magic" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

At the top is a fisheye view of the "office" from 2009. Some has changed, but much of the layout remains the same. To my left is the walnut cabinet I built when I was 19. It holds the Rock and Pop LPs on the top shelf and Film and TV Scores/Soundtracks line the bottom shelves. ATOP that is the wooden cabinet seen in the center of the photo above.

This room is a typical suburban child's bedroom. With a twin bed, dresser, bedside table, toy box and perhaps a small shelf, there would be room to play, but not an abundance. The room was designated as our home office from the beginning, although only my wife worked in an office. We had planned to have two desks set up like police detectives, facing each other. 
But that never happened. At first, I had a wooden computer desk, her dad's old oak filing cabinet which had been painted blue next to it on the right and a tall grey bookcase to the left and various other things. They can be seen below in an old film photo, dig that beige CRT monitor:
That is a photo of my wife at the top, she was 29 at that time. Anyway, you can see that corner was packed. Now the glass and steel desk sits opposite that space, as seen in the fisheye photo. This way I can keep an eye out front for visitors, deliveries, Nancy arriving home, etc., and enjoy a wall of sound. And yes, I know putting a speaker on the wall is a bad idea. Space was at a premium. One of my Dynaco A25 speakers from the 1970's, it is.

But, now, let me get to the first part of the subject of this article. I showed you recently, right next to me is a very nice Pioneer home theater receiver and a Denon universal player. They drive two Cerwin-Vega! LS-12 floor standing speakers and a pair of BOSE 301 speakers which are mounted near the ceiling. Since they have similar efficiency, I play them together. Thus giving me a "wall of sound".

This system is modest compared to what you have seen in the listening room. I always get around to testing new components and thus decided to listen to some of the FOCAL test CDs I had made. I know what the music should sound like as I have used them testing every new component for years. Which includes the four speakers in here, but they were then in use in the listening room. For more information on creating those test CDs, you may read it here:

I put disc 4 into the Denon universal player and pressed play. Hmm, something is off. Where is the crispness I should be hearing? Oh, the bass was there, but not the WOW that I usually feel when playing them. Odd....what could be wrong?
Remember those incredible sounding vintage Radio Shack Minimus 7W speakers which I had restomodded some years ago? Since remodeling the upstairs rooms, they had been relegated to rear channel status in the living room's surround sound system. Their rich walnut cabinets and brown grilles blended with the new acacia wood floors and brown leather chairs as can be seen below:
I thought, "easy enough to try them out to see if the sound improves." Which, I did, by placing them atop both LS-12 speakers, shown below. Since the only thing that remained of the original speakers were the cabinets and grilles, I had removed the original Realistic emblems that were on the bottom of the grilles and put these custom made emblems in their place. For information on what modifications I did and all that entailed, please look here:
Converted my already upgraded Minimus 7 speakers to ribbon tweeters!  
CERWIN-VEGA! They are not shy about proclaiming their name. Below is shown one of them with the grille off. See how the woven Kevlar woofer matches the folded metal transducer ribbon tweeters? That is coincidental, but looks great.
Below is the right one, being guarded by a Tie Fighter pilot.
Shown below is a photo showing the physical relationship of the C-V LS-12s on the floor to the BOSE 301 speakers above, mounted near the ceiling.
A storm trooper watches over the left speaker. Those are two Airsoft AEG rifles above and behind the open office door on the left: an M4 and a SCAR. The doorway that is visible leads to the listening room. We had talked of retiring to Arizona, but that never happened, that is a photo of the state made by satellite which is affixed to the door.

But, I digress, I haven't told you what happened with the little speakers. I pressed PLAY and in seconds as the music began, my mouth was agape. While the four large speakers provided a "wall of sound", these wee speakers did too, all by themselves. I could sense music floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall. I decided right then, these phenomenal speakers were staying in here! 
Not only was the soundstage enormous, so was the sound! It was open, crisp, with tight, and surprisingly deep bass from such small woofers. I cannot express to you enough just what a HUGE improvement it made plugging these small beauties in has done! I am glad I rescued them from a life of servitude and anonymity as simple surround speakers.

Let me show you more of the room. At least from where I sit. For car enthusiasts, the car shown to the left of the BOSE is my 1941 Plymouth coupe. Transformed from 1941 Mopar to all Chevrolet drivetrain and converted to telescopic shock absorbers. A 1957 283 V8 and early Corvette manual transmission. I was eighteen or nineteen then. Despite my being a paid car mechanic, I was getting into a lot more than I expected taking on that challenge.
My wife buys me small diecast cars she thinks I might like, from time to time. And I do like them, but have no room on the collection's shelf, so they are consigned to the wall. Our first new car was a 1997 Dodge Stratus with a manual transmission. Dodge built two of them to race in the NATCC and did very well indeed. Thus the "Flight Stimulator" poster. The square framed photo is from 1965's 24 Hours of Le Mans race in France. It shows two of the Shelby Daytona Coupes that stole the manufacturers championship from Ferrari when the new Ford GT-40 race cars failed to finish. It is a print: #1 of 750. Below that is one from 1970's race. It is signed by Vic Elford who drove the #25 Porsche 917 long tail. We owned a black version of the red Porsche shown in the top left corner of the PORSCHE poster. A 1987 924S. Loved that car! Most of the poster can be seen below.
Paintings were done by my mother, the framed one in the 1960's in California and smaller one inset more recently in Georgia. Three different photos of my wife and one of my oldest daughter. Such beauties. Sigh. More racing posters and photos and a car key each from: The Porsche, Camaro Z28, Audi TT and Subaru WRX fun cars we have had since the kids moved out. Currently, my Volvo V50 T5 turbo wagon with six-speed manual transmission fills the fun bill quite nicely.
This is what I see when sitting right here. That is my aunt whom I adore and she I. Those are the pictures for this article which I had not edited yet on the monitor. I found those Roland Micro Monitors at a thrift store and they do quite well for PC duties. Wish they were not beige.
These are the music makers: Pioneer VSX-917V is the newest home theater receiver I've owned. It has HDMI in and out, but here it serves stereo duty only. Not bad for $14.99. I have written about the fans I added which keep it cool sitting atop it previously. Denon DVD-1920 universal player serves disc-duty, playing all formats save Blu-ray. It was also $14.99 via eBay. Normally, I would have the player on top, since it is lighter and shorter, but even with spacers the heat was too much from the receiver, so it is at the bottom. I've been told the heat is normal, but with 40+ years of audio equipment use, it concerned me.
My racing simulation setup is above. My wife bought me the gaming chair which has a built in amplifier and speakers in the headrest with a "subwoofer" under the seat. Swivel base and armrests too. I had to lengthen the seat since the chair was made for kids as well as larger people. I'm 6'3" so I needed the length.It was a little too low still, so I have a backrest cushion to fill the gap. This all sits on the other side of the desk. The white framed object is a framed photo of a PORSCHE GT3 CUP race car. Signed by two drivers. I have NO wall space for it and no one is biting on eBay. For more on that subject of the racing simulation setup, please read this article:
Racing simulators XBox 360/Forza 4 and PlayStation 3 (PS3)/GT5  

Prior to the speaker change, I had another ear-opening revelation. I am a believer in audio improvements through better quality cables. Since I only needed a short pair of RCA cables to hook up the Denon to the Pioneer, I decided to try these:
Made by "KNUKONCEPTZ", they appeared to be fine cables. I'd only had experience with their speaker cable "pants", (those black things on each ends of the cable). They sounded OK to me. Until....

Years ago, I came across some of Radio Shacks finest RCA interconnect cables which are extremely well made, thick and heavy. As I was always trying something new, when I came across Liberty Cables, the Radio Shack cables were passed on to new owners. I had found a pair at a of RS cables at a thrift store, bought them and put them away. While looking for something else, I came across them and decided to give them a try with this small system. WOW! That was the first time the soundstage grew. Instantly convinced that the Knu-Kables now sucked, I set out to find more Radio Shack units.  
Equipped with ferrite cores and marked for signal flow direction, they are the quality tie-that-binds the Denon to the Pioneer. Above also gives you a closer look at the twisted-pair speaker cables which my wife refers to as "umbilical cords" that I have described to you in the past.
Since there is a 42 inch plasma HDTV right here, I decided to hook the Denon DVD player up to it. Why not? So, I plugged in an HDMI cable and....nothing! Tried another input, tried another cable, nope. It seems the HDMI output is inoperative. It happens.
Since I had used the Denon's stereo RCA analog outputs to the Pioneer's CD inputs, I decided to  just the front analog outputs of the 5.1 outputs to go to the TV. Seen above.
Below is looking down from the top of the TV. Inputs are on the left. In the past, I decided to also hook up the FM antenna to the TV. I have a 36 dB amplifier for UHF/VHF/FM which really brings in the distant radio stations in combination with the roof antenna. To my surprise, the simple metal dipole FM antenna also captures HDTV broadcasts perfectly too.
NO Digital? Analog 720 DPI will do as far as DVD playback. Some eBay sellers had these component RCA Radio Shack cables and two composite video cables. They work fine for stereo sound. I simply used Sharpie markers to change yellow rings to red and black. All are six feet long, more than enough for this need and the picture and sound is just right.
This TV has only digital toslink optical audio output, so I needed a DAC, seen above, to provide sound to the gaming chair. This tiny box came with a thin optical cable (one can convert coaxial digital with the same wee box) as well as power supply adapter. Monster Cable supplied the stereo RCA to 1/8"-3.5mm plug needed for the chair's amplifier.
Final photo shows a comparison of the Radio Shack to KNUKONCEPTZ cables. Their terminals seem to be well made and are easy to grip for removal, so there is that which is positive about them. For more on what's in this room, see below.
The OFFICE a virtual tour  This link will take you back in time to this room in former guise. I did not know then how to arrange photos back on Blogger, so it will seem confusing, but at least you will get to see things I did not show you in this article.

I hope you have enjoyed this quick look at my home office. It has served me well, and like the listening room has seen a LOT of changes over the years.

Thanks for looking!

Scott
August 3, 2018
#266 

     

The Appeal of Asian Art and Artifacts: Paintings, Statues, Sword and More. PART TWO.

July 31, 2018
#265

Gentle reader,

I am having fun with this subject. As stated in PART ONE, I do not know why Asian art appeals to me, nor do I understand my fascination with World War II. And, the music of that era. Perhaps, if there is anything to reincarnation, perhaps I was a soldier killed in WW II?

PART ONE can be found here:
The Appeal of Asian Art and Artifacts: Paintings, Statues, Sword and More. PART ONE.  

Now, we will start with two-dimensional art. I doubt any of the following paintings are anything but prints. Nor do I have any idea as to the artists nor how old they may be. But I like them.
This appears to be a wood block print detailed with color. Mount Fuji is in the background. If any of my readers can translate the symbols in these that would be awesome. Did you watch the remake of Battlestar Gallactica? If so, you will understand why this would look at home aboard one of the ships. Hint, the corners.
This one also appears to be older. Many themes occur in some Asian painting: Mountains, fog, trees, water and sometimes: bamboo, people, birds and/or buildings. 
Clearly Japanese based upon the pagoda. Are pagodas built elsewhere? I do not know.  It looks like a dogwood tree in the foreground indicating Spring. Note, a mountain in the background.
I call these two: Dreamy, due to their ethereal look and vagueness.  
Mountains, trees and water are the theme in both.
Birds are the main theme in these two unrelated paintings. Bamboo as well is seen. Two doves probably represent something in the one below.

This is a particularly realistic cat. Fine details in the fur and a representation of what cats can do that we cannot. 
This is a miniaturization, perhaps, of a large six-panel screen. The paintings on the front have such detail and depth that I can look at it for a long time and still see new things. Mountains and fog in the background. Storks accompanying them in the air. Meaning?
Called The Eight Immortals. The front (details above) shows the (minor) gods crossing a stormy sea floating on a tree. With perhaps the one on the left in the background riding a horse-god (?) across the water.

Above, shows the entire back. 
These paintings are less complicated.
Close-ups of the two end panels, above and below. So, reading the English translation, makes complete sense, right?
When I found The Eight Immortals, I wondered how to display them. I searched and searched for a frame to fit them, AND that I could replace the back with a sheet of poly-carbonate so that the backs could be seen if desired. I found it and it is perfect.
This is a nice fan. Perhaps the women represent the four seasons? I bought it the same place I found the female warrior doll seen in PART ONE. 
This is a three-dimensional artwork. Perhaps something to appeal to the tourists? It was a gift to me.
Another screen. This one tiny, with a very detailed black frame for each painting. Again, perhaps the four women represent the seasons. The other side is decorated as well, but I neglected to photograph it.
A gorgeous vase with great detail and much inlaid. A Pea cock, Pea hen and flowers decorate it with fine metal details. 
My most colorful dragon, again surfing the waves. I do not see his ball, perhaps he lost it? 
Asian Cork sculpting is another favorite Asian art of mine. Represented in four different frames and scales. The one on the left, above, is my oldest. That is, it was the first which I bought some years ago. 
True artisans create these three dimensional works of art. Their ability to carve such tiny details astounds me. The same themes often seen in paintings: Mountains, trees, birds, buildings, water. Yet, no people.

Above is an older picture, as I accidentally dropped it! So, many of the details were lost. We can pretend a storm came along.
This one is HUGE and I was so excited when I found it! If only you could see the large photo of it! I added a print inside the back to increase the interest. Note the floor being portrayed as water. I love it!  
Their relative sizes can be seen below.
Final Asian item and the only one that once lived.

Note the "eyes" my wife added when assembling this. Moe, one of our cats, was walking atop the skin, when he spied the eyes, he jumped straight up and hit the floor running!
Fishing Cats are one of the few big cats that like the water. They walk around in rivers in Asia catching fish. A shame someone killed it. But I am glad I saved it from the landfill.
As a bonus, here are two photos that could have been captured in Asia. Both shot by me on film many years ago. Both are in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia.
The shot above occurred quite by chance. I decided on the way back, to pull over and change out of my hiking boots for the long drive home. I saw this and with my last frame on the roll of film captured it. A longer lens would have made the setting sun larger and compressed the image. But it was literally a "snap shot".
Out of order, on purpose. We had heard about Dark Hollow Falls and decided to go there. It is quite a hike down and more so, back up as attested to by the pile of branches-turned-walking-sticks piled at the top of the trail. I used a tripod and 28mm lens and a long exposure to capture the movement of the water.
In the years before digital cameras and "smart" phones, one could get film developed many places. My choice was the local grocery store. One could get enlargements at a reasonable prices as well. The photo above is 11 by 14 inches. The one below is 16 by 20 inches. 35mm film was used.
One final image, completely WESTERN. My wife shocked me to tears surprising me with this copy of Remington's most famous statue one Christmas!
While it appears he is trying to rope the bison, which is NEVER a good idea, that is just the way I posed them.
And there we have it. You are now up to date on all the artwork in the den/listening room.

Thanks again for looking.

Scott

July 31, 2018
#265  

The Appeal of Asian Art and Artifacts: Paintings, Statues, Sword and More. PART ONE.

July 30, 2018
#264
Gentle reader,

If you are wondering why I start these blog articles with "Gentle reader" it is because, I feel the term: "Ladies and Gentlemen" has become archaic. But, I wish to greet my readers kindly. For you are kind to me by entering my little world to read what I have written and view my photographs. For which I sincerely thank you.
I consider myself a gentleman. I open doors for women and the elderly, I smile at strangers, most of whom return the smiles. And I will generally speak with anyone nearby. I have spent some complete airline flights in conversation with once strangers, now acquaintances, either seatmates or someone directly across the aisle from me. Also often while merely standing in line somewhere, do I strike up a conversation. 
I once dated (on a rebound for both of us, our "mates" left us for the other's mate) a woman named Jerry. She was my only "older" woman. She was 25 to my 20. I marveled at her ability to strike up a conversation with anyone, anywhere. As I have matured (I'm now in my 60's) I have adopted her friendly style. It has resulted in new friendships that would never have occurred had I not become so outgoing. It's nice to be greeted by name at so many places I frequent. A person's age does not matter, I speak with little ones all the way to those well beyond my years. We are all just people, after all.
The modern world has become too silent. Look around you, while at a stoplight or anywhere in public, and you will likely observe the majority of people either with earbuds in, and more often now, headphones on, listening to music and/or looking down at their "smart" phones absorbed in what someone else has posted on the Internet, or their "friends" exploits on social media.  
Face to face contact has faded from the norm to when it is absolutely necessary. Many people rarely actually TALK on their phones these days. And this is a shame. We know to not try and telephone our kids. They let it ring. Most of the younger generation will only respond to a text. 
We still have a landline telephone. As do two of our daughters, those who gave us our six grandchildren. The other four kids rely solely on their cell phones. The norm today is to never have such a "last-millennium" device as a telephone that needs wires and must be attached to the wall or sit on a table. Why would anyone want to just stand or sit while talking on the phone?
That reminds me of a true story: Some years ago, unsure of what to get their mother, whom they no longer lived nearby, for her upcoming birthday, two sisters decided to buy her a cordless telephone.  They even set it up for her to use. After returning to their distant homes, they found that their mother now called them more often, sometimes a couple of times a day. When one finally asked if Mom wasn't worried about high long distance phone bills, she replied, "What phone bills, this phone doesn't have a cord!" 
For that to be funny, one has to realize that for from the time Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, it cost money not only to HAVE a home or business phone service, but EXTRA to call long distance. There were cheaper times to do so, such as after 8:00 PM. Plus, it wasn't until the late 20th Century that one could BUY their home phone. No, you rented it. The universality of cellular telephones has eliminated the extra cost of calling someone outside your immediate area costing an arm and a leg. Of course, the telephone companies now make WAY more money with the billions cell phones than they ever dreamed of in the olden days!
I did not intend to write an essay. Sometimes some thoughts just need to be put into writing. 
This is to be about our Asian Art. I wrote about this previously, but have added many more things now and hope that you enjoy seeing them. This links the previous article from some years ago:  
Asian paintings, statues, swords and more....
The first few pictures show the room and it's art pieces with starting by looking from the center to the left-front corner
I DO NOT HUNT. That is a skin from a Fishing Cat, native to Asia, the widow of a dear friend wanted me to "throw away that old leopard skin". I rescued it and my wife sewed a backing to it, slightly stuffing it. I also did not shoot the Jackalope. First of all they are mythical and secondly that western rifle is missing vital parts. We discovered this AFTER buying it when we took it to the range. Grrr!
Thousands of my readers have seen some of these things in the multitude of articles I have written about my audio/stereo exploits. Some, perhaps you, have wondered about them?
This room, opposite the room I call my "office", which is where I write this. That room was originally the master bedroom of this house. We never used it as such and it was one of the girl's bedrooms. Once she moved out and stopped moving back in, we made it a "den" with the TV and modest surround sound system. And largely empty walls. After a while we decided to move the TV, etcetera, back to the living room and the den became my music "listening room". 
Above is the front wall. The stereo sits below the art.
 Above is the right-front corner.
 Which makes above the right-rear corner.
Above is to the left of my chair. Each piece of art will be shown and explained individually.
My one-and-only-aunt, Ardith, whom I love dearly and she I, is a remarkable woman. A retired nurse, turned Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner, she traveled the world at first with her second husband who was with the USO and later with the RED CROSS responding to disasters all over the world. She has seen things that most of us hope to never see. 
As a boy, I was fascinated with a beautiful, tall Geisha doll she kept in a glass case. I cannot tell you why, because I do not know why. To my shock and pleasure a year or so ago, one day a huge box was sitting on my porch when I got home. Inside was the doll. It must have cost a LOT to ship it here, and I now can gaze at her beauty anytime I wish. She truly loves me.
Her left forearm had come unglued. So I reattached it, but perhaps should have rotated it to the right a little as the dogwood branch blocks her face. I came across the doll on the right at an Asian store in a mall. I was intrigued because it is a girl with a sword. I pointed that out to the (Asian) saleswoman and she was surprised it was female too. 
When It was just the two of them, I'd say the shorter one was her tom-boy daughter who likes to pretend she is a Samurai warrior. 
The smallest one, my wife bought for me. She, being the youngest, wants to be Geisha like their mother. And, yes, I do know what Geisha were known for. But she fell in love, retired and married to have children, you see?
She stands almost 17 inches tall. Just look at the detail!
 The artisan who created her went to great effort.
 Below, her face is most visible.
 Pigeon toed? Perhaps.
Youngest daughter is quite stunning as well.

 Eldest daughter goes for the butch military look.
So, yes, I am a sixty-something-man who likes dolls. To look at. In fact, my wife handed me another one she found yesterday while we were shopping, nearly as tall as my aunt's, but I have no room for her.  
I once grew BONSAI. But I wasn't very good at it.
These are all artificial trees. Some better than others. One can now buy foliage of all kinds that never fades, never needs water and never dies. Artisans who create these works of art are truly skilled. Bees and hummingbirds are no doubt fooled by silk flowers, I reckon.


This was my first. I can manipulate most of the branches and place them where I wish.
 Below, a brass representation of BONSAI.
While on the subject of BONSAI, the Chinese also practice this art of miniature tress, their word is PENJING.  And if you think BONSAI is what the Japanese yelled going into battle, that word was BANZAI!
One who likes Asian art, surely should like Dragons as well. They are a part of the culture in some Asian countries. 
The fellow above, is largest and while appearing to be bronze, is in fact some sort of resin. The artisan carefully applied some sort of coatings to make it appear as aged and partly tarnished bronze. He is the largest by far, measuring more than 14 inches tall.  For more information upon why Dragons hold a ball, you may look here:
What does the ball represent that a dragon holds from China  
I bought the black one below first. The seller told me about the resin which is mixed with ground stone to create the color and texture. These are each about six inches tall and perhaps eight inches long. Each bookends some of my CD box sets. Both are ocean dwellers based upon the waves that they are riding.
The one below is pewter, I believe. His ball was missing, so I added a ball of iron pyrite, called "fools gold". He is the newest, standing seven inches tall on a three inch high base.
Lastly, below is the Chinese version of a Viking ship. Or, so I think. It is blacker in person, the flash lightens the color. No sign of propulsion. Magic, perhaps. Two in the center are playing Chess, while others stand watching the game. A monk, perhaps sits cross-legged in the stern, while a woman and child are near the bow.
Next, let us look at the swords.
The large one is genuine. It was my wife's nephew who owned it. He was leaving on a mission in Somalia. Perhaps fearing this might be the mission he does not return from, he gave it to me along with the stand.
Two men's blood has it drawn. Two military buddies of his wanted to see it. Men, being large boys, started playing with it. The one wielding it accidentally embedded it in the other's leg! Then he tried to pull it out by grabbing the blade, nearly cutting his fingers off!
So, yes, it is very sharp and heavy. Two hands are needed to wield it. The upper and smaller one is one of many thousand sold as a "Samurai Sword". The blade is stainless steel. I sharpened it and although not likely to cause real harm, the grandsons are not allowed to touch either one.
The hilts tell the tale. It is my understanding that the device wrapped in woven rope on the smaller hilt has meaning as does the color beneath. The real sword's hilt is made to be held securely even if wet with enemies blood. One would not use so ornate a sword as the smaller one in battle.
Speaking of battle. We just watched a show about the First Chinese Emperor, the one who defeated all the kings and united the various kingdoms into one united China. He had created the Terracotta Army so that in the afterlife he would have all he needed. EACH soldier is unique  just as each real soldier was. It was an incredible feat never before seen in Asia. The theory is that Greek sculptors were hired to teach Chinese artists how to make lifelike statues. Well he had a whole lot more stuff recreated in terracotta too, and all were buried with him over an incredibly vast area in China.
I found these two separately. Cool, huh?
Most likely made by different sculptors in miniature. 

I will end this chapter with a crystal ball. Well, perhaps it is glass. It turns out to not be Asian at all. As I began PART TWO, the globe sat before me and a tiny sign caught my eye. "What does that say? CHICAGO." Oh, well, now I know. When wound, the subway train rotates around the city. It plays a tune I do not recognize. Possibly from the musical film, CHICAGO. Who knew those actors could sing? The snow is tiny glitter. A river divides the scene and has an open draw bridge. And now, I know where it represents and the subway is not a subway at all, but an Elevated Train.
Next chapter will cover the paintings and prints as well as other items in the collection.

Thanks once again for taking the time to visit.

Scott

July, 30, 2018
#264   

  

The 500th Article Of The Robb Collections! Thanks To All Of You! Indexes To All Categories!

  October 24, 2024 #500 Gentle reader, First of all, THANK YOU for taking the time to read my writing and viewing my images! This article, s...